Zimbabwe: Whites condemn Mugabe
Posted: Monday, December 24, 2001

( Ayinde )

I am now watching this White woman on BBC cable, who is relating how she is leading a group that is fighting for their rights to live in peace in Zimbabwe.

It is amazing to hear how she condemns Mugabe for passing laws to legitimize what he wants to do.

The bias, hypocritical BBC interviewer cannot even pose proper questions to this silly mindless female who thinks that the only rule of law are those set down by the British.

But hearing this female articulate how he is passing laws to legitimize what he wants to do would have been humorous if we were not addressing serious issues. These hypocrites pretend they cannot reflect and see that their occupation of Lands in Africa was illegal and staying there illegally over time does not make it legal. They cannot see that Britain and the rest of Europe and America continually pass laws in an attempt to legitimize their crimes.

In fact the debt to African Zimbabweans is far greater than they imagine and cannot simply be repaid with land reform only.

But this is the power of European Bias Media; they convey what they want to viewers without putting things in a proper historical context.

I am posting a link for another view...
Why Mugabe is right ... and these are the facts
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( razmarcus )

The same hypocrisy is seen in South Africa. The World must understand: AFRICA for the AFRICANS!!!!
Some may argue but Idi Aimeen, gave the white racist usurpers 72 hours to get the raas claat out of the country to free up the land!!!!

Point Blank it is the Black man's land. To even debate and consider negotiating with Facist Nazis like De Klerk and those other SA murderers and these whites in Zimbabwe is an insult and disgrace to those millions of Africans who died under the treacherous colonial wickedness of these
human parasites!!!! They have no right to the land based upon their heinous crimes against African Humanity.

If anything they should be facing African Military tribunals and be charged with the crimes they are guilty of as conspirators, co-conspirators and beneficiaries of terrorist crimes against Humanity.

Africa must stand to drive these parasites from the contintent. "And some will say, not all of them are bad, see look we bring medicine to help you" as they kill off the African race with their genicide plan with AIDS and Ebola.

By their fruits you shall know them.....
More fire
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( Akinkawon )

That is what I was trying to tell you on the other Message Board.

BBC has been waging its own war on Mugabe for a long time. They try to sell the image that all was well in Zimbabwe before the Mugabe reform program. But for those who know the history, they did not peacefully hand over power in that country, they fought to maintain White control over all the major assets of that country and White businesses remained profitable because of another racist policy in trade. They would pay their white businessmen far more than they would pay African businessmen. So there is an appearance that when businesses are in Black hands they are not as successful.

Most Africans having been reduced to subsistence farming and not having access to business connections especially in the European markets will find it very hard to remain viable once the European Markets can source products and strike better deals with other countries.

Most times they play Black traders against one another by offering a particular trader more in the hope that they could devastate another larger trader and farmer who would eventually be forced to sell back to Whites. These Whites suddenly get better prices.

Today Cadbury chocolate buys cocoa from Africa but under a trading policy these African Countries are not allowed to manufacture chocolate. So, they sell the cocoa cheap to London Cadbury and import chocolate in Africa. This happens with many other products e.g. twine.

There is much written about these colonial practices that are still present today. The colonial system is maintained by the desperation of a people whose values are tied to European tastes and Greed (a desperate form of greed).

There is no way out for African Businesses unless they are prepared to first get better informed about these global practices of exploitation and are willing to develop products based on the need of other African states. Also they must invest in Education that could give the people better values that are tied to them and not Europe based on desperation and media imagery.

We often speak of the past colonial era without remembering that for many the mental chains of slavery have not been removed and as such most people are remote controlled.
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( Jeff )

Greets

I have reasoned with an African Brother from Zimbabwe and he said that in that country, there are two classes: the have, and the have-nots. He feels that Mugabe is using the have-nots for his own political purposes. He points out that the farms that have been taken over are not being used for farming, thus hurting the economy of the country.

Just because a man's skin is darker, doesn't make him a saint. Time to stop living in a utopia....

Peace
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( Gman )
Yeah man I agree with you, Mugabe is no revolutionary. I too know some people from Zimbabwe (who are by no means supportive of the white farmers)and none a dem like Mugabe. He has broken up strikes with force of arms, and used tribalism to divide the people, Shona vs. Ndebele. However I have no sympathy whatsoever for those white farmers, the land most definitely needs to be taken back from them tiefin' scoundrels and if some or all a dem get deaded in the process me don't care. Cos they didn't care about the Africans when they was hunting InI down like animals a couple decades ago.

But you know you gotta ask why Mugabe waited so long to make this move. I feel he's doing the right thing for the wrong reasons (to shore up his popularity with rural landless people who have so far seen little or no benefit from his regime). And it's true, what is the use of taking over land if you're not going to use it for constructive purposes? And how you gonna attack the African people who only work for these white farmers because there's no other jobs?

Definitely run out dem invaders, but don't put uncritical trust in leaders like Mugabe, membah we don't wanna get tricked by mercenaries whether white or black. Living in Guyana under Burnham I get to see first-hand how hypocritical certain people are when using words like "socialism" and "black power". Often these words are just a mask for people's power-hungry intentions, the same way words like "democracy" are a mask for the capitalist's t'iefing intentions.
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( Ayinde )

EVERY WHITE PERSON who did not fight to correct the Zimbabwe injustice and did not hand over all, ALL what they profited from that crime against humanity are 100,000,000 times worst than Mugabe.

It does not matter if people speak to all the Blacks in Zimbabwe, if Blacks did not push to get the lands back to the indigenous peoples and their descendents then they are already enslaved and are part of the problem. We will work to educate them. But no White can get me to have more than basic sympathies for them. If they did not contribute to the insults they would not be victims today.

Next: Every white person and to a lesser extent every African person who do not fight for reparations to be paid for slavery are part of the problem. If Blacks profited from Slavery, show us their profits so we can claim that also. But we understand their complicity.

I not buying this we are all one family and lets forget the past nonsense.
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( Jeff )

Greets

You wrote: I not buying this we are all one family and lets forget the past nonsense.

Forget family....that's human con-cepts....we're talking down to the nitty-gritty....all is one...but yes, the past cannot be forgotten, but I refuse to let any more dishonesty and politricks, black or white, impede the work that needs to be done for all Humanity. What about the Asians? They are fighting amongst themselves. (China and Tibet) Ever see a Chicano tell a Mexican to speak English? Or how about the schism between Africans, Jamaicans, and Black Americans? Is this just more ego? (yep) When can anyone in the Human Race say that no one has suffered something along the way? (some more than others...and THAT needs to be dealt with by all of us)

Deal with the reality of the history of this bullshit democracy? Yes!

Fight for Human rights? Yes!

Learn about the past? Yes, of course! And LEARN FROM IT.

But I refuse to be plagued by WHITE GUILT for the crimes of many people of the Cauacasian race.

Come to my house, any color my Brother and Sister, be Good and Kind, and full of Respect, and it's mi casa su casa.....

God is looking at us ALL and wondering when we are gonna get it straight.

Peace and Love
Jeff
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( Jeff )

BTW

Blame that one single Portugese man, and that one single Ashanti king for all the past four hundred years.

The Portugese wanted to build an alliance with the Ethiopian Prester John against the "infadel" Muslims, and the Ashanti king wanted those guns that would aquire more land.

Ego=Devil, and the devil doesn't knwo the difference between black and white (or japanese against Chinese, or Chinese against Tibetans, or the Ashanti against the Zulu, or the Irish Protestants against the Catholic...etc etc etc...)

Heaven Help Us All
Jeff
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( Ayinde )

Yes, I am blaming the Whites and every fool who buys White false values and greed.

I am blaming greed and especially Whites who feel they know what is good for African people. I am no slave and no one is oppresses me. But that do not stop the White Economic power system from continually trying and working on the minds of the less fortunate and making it harder for them to wake up. It's not a fair battle.

Don't get me wrong, I have White friends but only the kind who promote African awareness and contribute towards Africans doing the Work. Not some who want to be in the front like if them saving Black people.

I not talking about any Asians here. That is White schemes. Every time we talk about payback they keep bringing up every other people and way-out claim trying to confuse the issue.

Mugabe is bad but every White in Zimbabwe who sat there and did not push the issue for correction is far worst. When reparations are paid and stupid Whites stop trying to dictate to people about what they should do with their own money and land, I will be the first to show more Whites how to live like family. Whites don't get this family thing yet. They have words but no idea of the rules of engagement.
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( Gman )

Respect Ayinde. I agree with the I on most points but I have a couple comments.

The reason I posted my comments about Mugabe, was not to minimize the responsibility of the whites for all the suffering in Zimbabwe. But I feel everyone who posts on this board (well maybe a few exceptions) already knows the atrocities the settlers committed, and agrees that they should be driven off the land they stole, and that no tears should be shed for their blood, like Benjamin Zephaniah said awhile back about the Boers dem. So we done agree on that. But especially here in America I see most of the pan-African kinda groups give totally uncritical support for Mugabe and hold him up as a real revolutionary. I don't feel that's the case so me have to point that out. It's a simplistic "settlers bad, ZANU good" concept that doesn't do justice to the reality of the situation and doesn't take into account the many AFRICAN people Mugabe has had killed or imprisoned.

The white settlers have to go, dead or alive, and the land returned to the poor people of Zimbabwe, regardless of their political party allegiance or lack thereof. But now the big division between Black Zimbabweans is Mugabe's ZANU party vs. the MDC (so-called democracy movement party). The way I see it, MDC was trying to attract a lot of urban dwellers who was sick of Mugabe's regime, both poor people and their unions, and the petit bourgeouis, and whites as well. So dem have 3 groups of people who join them for 3 different reasons, but we done know who is really pulling their strings, they are the party that is going to invite in all the multinational corporations and so forth, abandon any kind of pretense of socialism, make Zimbabwe safe for investments. We know that is what they are about but a lot of urban poor people is a part of it because they are sick of Mugabe's repression and believe they will be allowed to have a true voice in society under the MDC. If the MDC comes into power, they will see how mistaken they were. But when Mugabe comes and starts cracking down and beating and killing people for attending a meeting or writing an article in a newspaper or peacefully assembling, all that is doing is driving more people into MDC's fold. ZANU is now desperate to hold onto power and they are using the rural landless the same way MDC is using the urban poor- promising them a better life. But is only the people can give themselves a better life, not no political party, them only want to use ya.

So I say, support the land reclamations- that is bigger than Mugabe anyway, that is the voice of the people. But watch out for Mugabe, MDC and all their ilk. Not all who claim to be revolutionary, truly are.
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( Ayinde )

I am seeing you clearly.

I also will not support driving Whites out by any means but if some people do, I understand.

But I will never condemn Mugabe in front of Whites who do not push the reparations issue. I don't care if they say they love Blacks or they are Rastafarians. Until these main issues are settled I am not putting down Mugabe. From now until their doomsday or change of heart I remain firm. When I see Whites openly calling for reparations to be paid then I may join them.

The new white thing is to accuse Africans who push for land return and reparations of blaming Whites.

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( Jeff )

Greets

This is kind of long, sorry....I am glad we are all Reasoning straight and not pretensiously, Respect.

I have mixed feelings for reperations, and that is because who pays who back? Do I pay for something my ancestors were never a part of?(looked into it, my family lineage, and that's when I found out that my grandpa actually desegregated a church in Texas and had to move to Colorado because of it)I am a poor, white family man, and 'ol Jesse Jackson and all his offspirng are way way ahead of me on the pay-thing, why should he get my daughter's money because I don't choose to go into politricks and make all the money he did? Does the poor, reservation-living Indians pay for what the Cherokee Nation did with slaves? Does the Ashanti tribes, and offspring thereof also pay back for their role in it? I would be all for it, if not for the many compexities. If black businesses got money, would they be honest with it? Money is money, black or white, and the love of money corrupts, straight and simple.

And whose land is it anyways? Don't we all live on stolen land? Before the white man came along, Africans were all over each other for land, just like the Europeans, and Asians, and Native Americans.....just more devil ego. You can't honestly tell me that Shaka had anything to do with the revolt against the British....he was on his own trip, BIG EGO, he actually liked the British army for their military strength...he wanted that strength. Why, so he could conquer more land? Nobody's perfect it seems....absolute power corrupts absolutely.

And yes, I do care about the struggle for Africans around the globe. I care about the struggle for what the whole Human Race is going through right now.

Is money that important? Or is the Human Race and our survival on this planet more important? Why did all the Spiritual Messengers come with nothing but the clothes on their back? Ever see a rich prophet? Yep, money is good, but the love of money, and power for that matter, corrupts like nothing else....

Just Reasoning, I am not upset...I Thank You and have Much Respect for our getting together and telling it straight. I like real people here on the Net...too many people fakin' it. :-)

Peace and Love Brother
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( Akinkawon )

While I know the way of peace and divinity, none shall enter unless they know the way of the warrior. The warriors fight the battles here on earth for right understanding and right actions to the afflicted then they may graduate.

All who claim to know the way of peace and have not known the way of the warrior are frauds. They are the enemies within that lure the unsuspected away from the path.

How can a man claim to be one with all mankind and leave out the legacy of Earthly inequities? All of Europe was built on the backs of Slaves while many of the descendents of these earlier victims are now subjected to the absurdities of racial prejudice and gender discrimination. Those who have unconsciously accepted the 'profits' of this unjust system must first become conscious of it. They must work for a restoration of dignity and rights of belonging to the disadvantaged. Many impoverished people do not have the luxury of traveling to, and or settling where they wish. They do not have the mental comfort to even associate comfortably with other Blacks. They live under the scourge of False White Superiority superimposed over the Greatness of their ancestors. They have been nurtured on illusions.

Every White today receives far more consideration than a Black man or Woman and this evil blinds many to the built in inequities in the systems that disenfranchises so many.

Today the 'Arabs' and 'Palestinians' who were initially Black are now getting little experiences of what Africans in the West have long experienced. They are now getting a taste of what they have also done and continue to do to African people in their region.

Do we all live on stolen land?
Think of this for a minute and you may discover that while many live on land that was stolen from more indigenous Africans and Indians, the idea that a mortal can own and possess land is European and it is from that false notion of ownership and entitlement they took from many, and killed and displaced many more. Those who were dragged unto lands where people were forcefully removed are not thieves but victims of thieves.
Many may live on stolen land but the thieves were those who thought it was theirs to possess in the first place and it is necessary to address this wrong by recognizing that a debt is owed to the descendents of the people who by direct lineage were entitled to settle and roam as they please. Today all are forced to recognize land, as property and no African should continue claiming that land is free for all unless he or she has that land to so declare.

Yes Jeff, as I told you before, once you were the recipient of the benefits of White Superiority you are guilty by association and have inherited the sins of your forefather.

You have the attention of Whites and it is your responsibility to carry these truths to them and to bring resources/money to the table to further the process of enlightenment. You can set up your own school if you wish but you will receive no graces from enlightenment unless the dignity to all Blacks are restored and until they have all had a chance to taste material freedom, (which is short lived).

Being White, you can get the attention of White media and you can take to them the works of Great Africans for them to promotion. It is a sin for you to sit around with Blacks and remain materially poor while in many ways you can earn far more than Blacks with equal skills and you can bring this money for people like me to show you how to use it for good. Lean not on your own misunderstanding of trying to determine what Africans should do or not do with what is owed to them. It is a debt to be paid and the people can do as they wish with their money. Many will waste resources for they have learned the White ways of material excesses and adoration.

These are the lessons that were taken to Africa, while the young and brilliant were dragged off as slaves with the aid of some Africans who were already corrupted by European false values.

Do not confuse yourself with generalizations to mask the issues and to detract from the essence of this discourse which points to right actions for the liberation of you.

But please speak your mind and bring all the White counterarguments to the discussion so that more Africans can learn how to deal with Western Spin doctoring.
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( IsisRastafari )

Blessed Love I's!
I am very glad to see this reasoning taking place and wanted to jump in and add my Iditations to the reasoning, for truelly it is more than past time that this reasoning needs to be massively, for only through repairing the past can InI move foward into the future, having built upon Truth and Right as the Foundation.

InI as white people do have a Collective Responsibility that must be upheld. I also am a "poor" white whose family, as far as I have been able to trace, had not hands in slavery, but still I feel this needs to be looked at in the Collective, InI know that the affects of slavery are still with InI today and also racism is alive and well today, re: preferential treatment in how our communities are alocated funds, public services, housing, racial profiling by police, landlords, employers, not to mention in the inequity of the justice system, now granted reparations may not fix these ills, but it is a step...the movement of reparations is also encompassing re-education of the masses. Also with the mentality of white supremecy it was used to secure the 'future' for whites in general, by putting whites above others in all aspects of life. That was done for all whites to feel supreme, even though InI don't accept and adhear to this, it is still something that is here and available to whites. It was still done for whites even if InI don't accept it, with this being put on InI plate since birth, InI have been thus given the responsibility to change it, and that is reparations to I.

No InI may not have money, and I think that when reparations are issued in the form of $, it will be from tax dollars that InI will pay, as it looks that the one who will be alocating funds will be the governments. For Surely InI can sight that reparations will be a positive step! InI tax dollars pay for pure evil, look at the defense budget and what it is used for. I dont feel it is up to InI whites to worry about how the funds are used....for I don't tell no one how to run them lives. So to I like anything, the Good that is brought about by reparations out weighs any adverse effects that may be.

Also there has been reparations by Ghana a prime example for InI to sight, now those in Ghana may not even be descendants of the Ashanti Tribe, their family may not have played a part in slavery, still them stand up for the inequity that has been committed........

FIHANKRA ~On December 9th, 1994 a Historical ceremony was conducted In Ghana, West Africa to Atone for the participation of those past traditional rulers who helped to sustain the trans-atlantic slave trade, first initiated by European powers in the 15th Century. The Atonement ceremony consisted of the customary purification of a carved stool (seat) and specifically prepared skin of an animal. Stool and Skin were customarily named Fihankra, which literally translated means: When Leaving Home Good-byes could not be said. At this time there is a Ghana Law expected to be passed giving dual citzinship to Africans of Diaspora and Ghanians who gave up their African Citzenship for American citzinship will be able to get back their Ghana citzenship, and I also hear of land being set a side...the contact bredren is
Nana Kwadwo O. Akpan
Chief and Custodian of the Stool and Skin of Fihankra
fihankra@africaonline.com.gh

So I sight it is just a diversion to contemplate what others will do to make right, when InI have In InI hands the ability to make right even if it is classified as "small" still good for the advancement of the Whole.

No I, money is not important ultimatly, "Life is worth more than Silver and Gold...." (so why do InI worry about how it will be spent by those recieving reparations) Money now-a-days can even buy life, and it does affect the freedom InI have in life. Some of us as white people also encounter the oppression of money, but this is a reflection of the matrix of the system, and the issue needs to be looked at piece by piece of the whole, there is more opportunities for white people as a whole in babylon, economics is another form of slavery, and for blacks this is a two-edge sword living in babylon. Slavery has not been addressed in no real form in babylon by whites, it hasnt been that long ago, for ones to forget it like they have, where I live in the south, once blacks were freed from slavery with little to nothing, many couldnt afford anything but to stay where they were and sharecrop or move to the cities projects, not too long ago at all actually within the last generation, and then from there to find a job in the city, yah right, to get in school was an issue, the whole 'majority mind frame' is based on non-equality, and this is massive non-comparable to anything else in the view of the collective communities, black and white.....the mentality is still present. Yes Ultimatley it is the human race and all of we's survival.....One Body....head, arms, shoulders, back, legs, etc....all parts need to be treated right for the body as a whole to prosper. I feel our duty as poor white people is to re-educte ourselves and pass it on to others, that in and of itself is a form of repartions, a way of working within the body to help make it whole and healthy.

Haile I Selassie I spoke of Collective Responsibility many times, in the Aspect of Collective Responsibility of Africa, Collective Responsibility of Ethiopia, Collective Responsibility of Humanity.

One Love~True many chant One Love! But is it true love, true love doesnt have any conditions, doesn't seek anything in return for giving true love, true love gives of it self freely, true love walks over hills and vallys for the one love!

I know I have rambled on, and don't know if I made any sense, please ask me about anything I wrote, sometimes I cant find the write words to truelly express what I feel, that is why I dont post much. And bredren Jeff I want you to know I am not one of the fakers online:) I am real and the I is welcome in I gates anytime to see....

Blessed Love!
One Love!
Just-Full Ites!
I-sis
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( IsisRastafari )

Jeff....you are right, the love of money of corrupts....but the issue of reparations isn't for the pursuit of the love of the money, but of the pay that still hasn't been given for years and years of forced labor by millions of people. So in that aspect, money is important.
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( E.A.S.Tafari )

HAIL THE LIVING I HAILE SELLASSIE 1

Greetings

Who is Jeff? Where is he.We just want to know if he's living in these times.

I so glad that there is a sister to catch some of his fire. Please sister re-educate Jeff for INI ,first by asking him to walk a mile and stop grudging those blacks who have what is righfully theirs. As a matter of fact people like Jesse and the rest dont even have enough because we know that they surely worked the righteous work for what they have and have been robbed on the way by people who think that what these africans have attained is in the wrong hands.

We are also asking Jeff to visit the ghetto and projects and the prisons; take a drive in the suburbs; fly to the continent and visit the african homelands and the suburbs on the continent; take a look at the status of african people who have the wealthiest continent and are the poorest in the world; find out who is controlling all the natural resources and the economy all over the world; who are the war mongers and the gun manufacturers.If after his position is still the same, then we invite him to one of the cliffs in the Caribbean where the slave masters used to throw the runaways, the sick and the elders,into the sea to get rid of living human beings who were not of any productive use to them on the slave plantations; and from the top of one of these haunting cliffs, he can take a dive.

Our hearts have no place for the rich or poor, black or white, who dont have a sense of justice.

Jeff,if you know the bible in out we ask you to join the jesuits and watch you empire catch fire!!!!!
Yes I "true love"
Fire oh RasTafari!!!!!!
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( E.A.S.Tafari response to Akinkawon )

HAIL TO THE MOST HIGH ALMIGHTY JAH

YES I BROTHER;

The I said it for all of INI
Give thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!
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( Jeff )

Greets

Brother, I was once Rasta, for the past 12 years....Reasoned with Elders, preached Black Consciousness to my white people, etc etc....I am not as ignorant as you think I am, believe me. I have thought long and hard about these topics before many on this here internet even heard about Rasta. It almost made me laugh to read you tell Sister Isis, who I've know for a while here on the Net, to educate me, but as of late I have been trying to transcend the ego and just show compassion and love...even to the smallest of God's creatures.

Lately, I have been greatly influenced by Buddhist teachings, which point directly to the heart, and not the color of the skin. Buddha taught that it is desire, and our want of things that cause suffering. All this desire comes from ego, and the Buddha has taught that we must cease hatred and all other things that come from the ego. I, me, etc etc...we are all connected, right down to the littlest molecule, so there is no I or you or me....

Yes, I do care about the world, and ALL the past inustices of Humans. And for me the answer isn't more money which causes more corruption, but straight up Enlightment for the Human Race.

Peace
Jeff
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( Jeff )

Greets Once Again,

"It is proper to doubt. Do not be led by holy scriptures, or by mere logic or inference, or by appearences, or by the authority of religious teachers..."
-Gotama the Buddha

And that is what I do Brother....straight and simple. I don't believe in any -centric view, neither Euro or Afro....Life si way too compex for such simplifications.

Peace and Love
Happy Holy Days to All
Jeff
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( IsisRastafari )

Greetings Jeff, I don't know what the I finds so laughable about learning from another, in specific I, Can we not learn from each other? Or can't InI even learn from the "smallest of God's Creatures"? I feel only ego stops InI to be open to learning. I am no way perfect and will gladly accept any righteous rebuke or lesson the I have...so please I tell I what the real deal is...and since when does the WANT for JUSTICE cause suffering? I allways thought it was the reverse the UN-WANT for JUSTICE causes suffering.

"Throughout history it has been the inaction of those who could have acted, the indifference of those who should have known better, the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most, that has made it possible for evil to triumph." H.I.M. Haile I Selassie I.

In this society skin color does affect InI life experiences, InI life experiences shape InI heart.

True-Word-Sound-Power...."Straight up Enlightment for the Human Race"
Blessed Love!
I-sis
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( Jeff responds to Akinkawon )

Greets

I am on my way to LA for Christmas....and just wanted to respond to one thing, and then I will try to get abck to the general discussion.

You wrote: All of Europe was built on the backs of Slaves

I would like to point out that yes, America was built on the backs of slaves, but Europe already had great empires before slavery, and they were built on the backs on poor, white people known as serfs. How about reperations for all the poor serfs of European history?

Again, I am asking in all seriousness, and still hold firm to my views that man to man is unjust...not just white against black, but all Humans are unjust to one another, and again, from my own spiritual views, it is all due to ego.

I will get back to you again, hopefully when I get to LA.

And again, thanks for the good, honest reasonings!

Peace
Jeff
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( Akinkawon )

Yes, I mean the Europe we know today and I would go back further once we are through discussing returning lands and Reparations to Africans.

{{{ Europe already had great empires }}}

In your European view, and you are quite entitled to hold that view, Europe had great empires.

WHEN THE LION TELLS HISTORY THE HUNTER IS NO HERO.

In my African view, Europe never had a great Empire. All the European 'empires' were built on theft and murder. They were the world's greatest thieves. Many Africans tried to civilize Europeans and very few grasped a bit of what it meant to be civilized. The few that did were quickly executed or ostracized for promoting 'revolutionary' ideas.

As a White person you have the luxury of adopting any belief system you want. Today you are Rasta; tomorrow you are Buddhist and later on a Hindu. You can be anything and society would not discard you to the cesspool of the human race. They might consider you a crackpot but many material doors would remain open to you.

You are not even appreciative of the breaks you have and how much more you can do if you were not trying to escape the work here on earth. You mentioned that you used to promote African consciousness (which I doubt but I believe you thought you were). No one who understands the problems of race and gender discrimination would stop addressing it while it still affects so many people. It's like saying you used to treat cancer as if when you stopped there was no more cancer.

Whites have always exploited each other and the forced labour of the Slavs cannot be compared to chattel slavery and its legacy of racial discrimination and land deprivation.

Anyhow Europeans do not have a problem killing and compensating each other, it is the Africans they have a problem with.

I'll wait until you return before I continue….
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( Jeff )

Greets

Going to LA tomorrow instead. First, I don't have a "European" mind...I have the mind of Jeff, no -centrics....just the mind God gave me. Second, I should have not used the word "great"....trust me when I say I don't find the history of Europe very great or exciting, but I do have yto study it just as I have to study African, or Asian, or any other history. Third, you too can be a Buddhist, or Rasta or anything else....nobody makes that decision but you, and nobody controls that but you. Economoics? Yes, the power structure is everything you say it is, but spirituality is between you and God, and so don't diss what I choose spiritually, cool? (Might I give you the webpage for the Pround Black Buddhist? Yes, he's from Africa, and he CHOSE his religion)Or do you want to reason with one of my Black friends about how he isnt Rasta anymore also? Did he have a choice????

Anyways, I will leave the board and let you and others speak of what you want...the oppressed will become the oppressors...etc etc...history repeats itself. Power and money....Thats why Buddha said to drop the desires and cravings of the ego (money and power included)....only then will wars and slavery end.

Peace Ya'll
Jeff
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( E.A.S.Tafari )

PRAISES AND THANKS TO THE ALMIGHTY ONE JAH RAS TAFARI.

Greetings

INI are going to have a farewell reasoning for Jeff or maybe INI just had it.We see that is one who is retired hurt.....
wait until he comes out with his sellout biography twenty years from now when he has finally found his tower with all his donny. He is going to write of all his adventures and the things that were not so attractive in this religion and that one. He is heading to be a hero in time .. that is how these fickle people operate.They cower under the task when it becomes a reality because we are sure that his next new religion is going to expose his cowdice once more. he is going to move on like the typical rolling stone until he finds his true self. just another man (white this time) who couldnt take the light.

INI fare thee well until we meet in the land of CONSCIEINCE. we SEE THAT YOU DIDNT ACCEPT THE INVITATION TO THE HAUNTING CLIFFS IN THE CARIBBEAN.DONT MAKE THEM FOLLOW YOU.

From the hearts we wish you well in all your ventures.Carry some mariJahna in the inner coat(not coke) whenever the depression of injustice sets in and in your high just pray for those "those were not as fortunate as you" YES I IF YOU ARE SINCERE YOUR PRAYERS WILL REACH YOUR DISCOVERED GOD.WE WILL ALSO PRAY THAT YOU WILL NOT THINK BE BECOMING ANOTHER columbus.

Haaaaaa! we sighing another sigh of relief while we stack up all your past verbal contribution to what you once thought was your home.Fallcy eh!?

RUN AND CATCH YOUR SALVATION BEFORE IT BECOMES ANOTHER ILLUSION.
THERE IS NO PEACE WITHOUT JUSTICE.
TRUE LOVE IS LOVE. JAH THE MOST HIGH IS LOVE.
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( Akinkawon )

BUDDHISM: The Dalai Lama is pushing for the return of lands.
When you meet him tell him that is material things and a waste of time.

You converse like a regular European even though you believe you are different.

It don't matter what an African joins or becomes he would be plagued with the negative effects of Racial prejudice. That's my point.
There is no escaping racism; there is no choice about that.
When you join what you want you are not faced with the negative effects of Racism.

I am a practicing Buddha, and Sufi etc, but when we are finished with the return of lands and compensation to all Africans affected by Slavery and its legacy of Racial abuses we could discuss Buddhism.

To be continued..... 

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