Are Rastafarians Confusing?
Posted: Monday, August 6, 2001( Dredeye ) If you feel you are seeking a perspective from Rasta people, I am more than willing to share my own views to dispel any confusion you have experienced from other people. I respect your sense of urgency in terms of establishing a sensible discourse about Rastafari so please feel free to respond at anytime.
Give thanks and praises to the Most High Jah Rastafari! His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I the revealed kingly character of InI true savior Yehoshua(Hebrew name for Jesus)
Dredeye Knight Out!
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( Akinkawon ) Brother, search for the true meaning of those words, Yehoshua and Jesus, they have African originals.
Examine Jewish history and see how they have become lost for not getting the African meaning to the words they use. Yes brother, their entire doctrine has an African originality but is lost to them and all who copy them.
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( Dredeye ) I know Yehoshua means "God is salvation" in Hebrew. But my brother Akinkawon, what African orignal name are you speaking of? Amongst the thousands of different cultures and languages, the names and the words that describes the manifestations of Jah are many. Yehoshua was living example of Jah but so were other Africans throughout history. I also agree that much of Hebrew(which does differ from Jewish culture)has been influenced by Ancient Kemetic rituals and practices. If you don't mind, could you please give a little jump start in finding some of these names and their sources. Give thanks sharing your POV, it only helps to affirm InI as the chosen in the sight of the Most High.
Dredeye Knight Out!
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( Akinkawon ) The way some Rastas hold on to these Jewish and Christian stories it comes over as if Africans had no concept of these things.
It is not so much the names you choose but how and why you use them and if those words give you a clear understanding of what you are holding on to. I agree it is popular folktale to claim that Joshua and Jesus carry the same meaning but in Jewish history/folktales Joshua was a tribal leader whom the Jews were trying to make into the Egyptian concept of a savior.
In both Jewish and Egyptian history (the Jews copied from the Egyptians) the leaders were two characters, one was a leader of the people (like a king) and the other was a spiritual leader.
In modern Judaism and Christianity they lost the meaning of these two figureheads that was derived from Egypt, where they had a spiritual guide/leader/high-priest and a leader for the daily affairs of the society. Very often one would read of the pharaoh consulting with the Spiritual leader in the temple before making important decisions.
In Jewish history, Joshua was a warring leader assisting them in overrunning other tribes. So they held this character in high esteem. He may have been their idea of a savior in their quest for land. But for the people who were looted and killed in that drive, he was something else.
But on the other hand if one study the origin of the word Jesus is was a corruption of the Greek Iesous, which was, coined from the late Egyptian Horus, which means the same savior and can be traced back to the earlier Egyptian word Heru (Savior). When heru was used as a verb, it meant to save. The word hero in English was derived from the Greek heros, which came from the Egyptian heru - to save. That word can be traced back to an earlier word meaning the same life saving forces of the Universe.
There is more to this but I recommend people try to investigate what they hold on to and not come over like hard-line Christian fundamentalist; least they discourage others from sharing.
Please do not expect to find this in modern dictionaries.
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( Dredeye ) Peace Akinkawon,
I agree with your statements. Let us not be deceived by filtered names and history that only masks our true history as Africans, the true creators and forerunners of highly developed civilizations.Again, Iman speaks for Iself when Iman say that Kemet is the root of all major civilizations including Israel. But even before there was Kemet in all of its profound glory, the ancient civilizations of Nubia which is based at the 1st cataract of the Nile(Blue Nile)were thriving. What is the current location of Nubia, Ethiopia and the Sudanese area East African areas. Basically, the land of the sun-burned faces.
I don't really know the how ancient Nubians practiced or worshipped their own higher beings but even still they influenced Kemetic culture. Matter of fact, I was watching a documentary one time on Discovery channel, and they were breaking down how there were smaller protype versions of pyramids that stand to this very day found in the central east african region of the continent. Who built them? Why? InI built them, why? I don't know but the knowledge is within, InI just have to find the same creativity, faith, and ingenuity to remember those lessons and skills.
My brother Akinkawon, InI are rootsmen. InI come from the ground of the so that the Most High put certain elements together to make His sheep(InI) tend to the earth in all of its beautiful and natural glory. Unfortunately, thru the course of thousands of years we have lost track of that great and powerful mental and spiritual knowledge. To InI, Rastafari is a way to attain that knowledge by rejecting the death and destruction that Babylon has InI plugged into daily and begin to reconstruct the great civilization of old but better. Because now we will not underestimate the abilities of the evil forces that combat us from acheiving this mighty goal. Europeans and our own black people have shown InI that.
I apologize for writing so much, but for Iman, once all the different ideological barriers are broken and all of InI to see InI's true stake in life and history, they won't matter much cuz they are all different ways of identifying with and acheiving the spirtual heights that we are capable of.
Rastafari Love
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( Akinkawon ) Write as much as you wish.
I do not understand what you are trying to say here; "Let us not be deceived by filtered names and history that only masks our true history as Africans, the true creators and forerunners of highly developed civilizations."
I specifically wrote in reference to the use of Joshua and Jesus. Some may feel this is unimportant but how would you like it if someone controlled the media, documented that George Bush is the savior of mankind, then kill all the people who know better and future children are left to grow up with this propaganda as if it was a divine truth.
They would be all singing praises to a hoax and cannot become enlightened from the repetition of that lie. If they do not get access to better information, they would have to return to the land and live naturally to start realizing basic truths. (Most people should do this as a primary discipline to higher learning.)
Also, I do not accept that high civilization started with Egypt or Nubia. When I hear people with this I immediately question what they call civilized. The West is still to develop civilization if the character of people and not their material possessions measures it.
For me human civilization started with the earliest aboriginal humans, and along the way many people became uncivilized and some returned to brief periods of civilization.
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( Dredeye ) I'm assuming this was the basis of your question below:
"I do not understand what you are trying to say here; "Let us not be deceived by filtered names and history that only masks our true history as Africans, the true creators and forerunners of highly developed civilizations."
I specifically wrote in reference to the use of Joshua and Jesus. Some may feel this is unimportant but how would you like it if someone controlled the media, documented that George Bush is the savior of mankind, then kill all the people who know better and future children are left to grow up with this propaganda as if it was a divine truth"
Okay Akinkawon. This is my overstanding of what you are asking. First of all, when you are trying to explain the true meaning behind Joshua and Jesus, I'm kind of got lost where you are coming from. Originally you asked about why Rasta people use the false term of Jesus only. Then I explained to you that the true name of so called Jesus is "Yehoshuah" which means (Yahweh is salvation) I'm not sure where the name Joshua came in but for now let InI deal with Yehoshua. If you research in a Jersulam Bible which provides linguistic and historical context for the scriptures it will tell you the Hebrew name for Jesus. (Check in Matthew, it should reveal something in the frist reference to "Jesus") I agree that the name Jesus Christ is a "filtered name" and his message and history has also been tampered with as well. If you diagree that Yehoshuah is his real name, please correct me by showing what substantiates the African name of the man many have known to be called Jesus the Christ or Jesus of Nazareth.
Secondly, your definition of civilization may be different than my own. Yet, Ancient Kemet and Nubia are still considered to be "High Civilizations" based upon the levels of social, political, economic, scientific, and spiritual interaction and expansion they acheived. Aborginals' history also supports humankind's place of origin in Africa. But name one a group that developed a complex language and writing system that baffles many African and European scholars til this very day. Name any aboriginal society that have fortified structures that have yet to determined exactly how they were built.
Aboriginal were nomadic at times and sustained fewer numbers within their groups because of a lack of basic viable resources(food and water). Ancient Kemet and Nubia were built upon a major water source(the Nile) that helped to yield an abundance of crops that fueled the livlihood of more people at one time. Iman speak for Iself, but this is what Iman define as "High civilization". Not to demean aboriginal civilization because they were the beginnings of Nubians, Mesopatiamians, etc. But there was also a significant development of human nature in order for aboriginals to evolve to humans of Ancient Kemet or Nubia.
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( Sandra ) Mr Dredeye Knight
Please think about Akinkawon's last response and seriously tell me if knowing what is right and wrong does not matter.
Remember, you said you were opened to discussion so I am looking for discussion on your last post.
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( Dredeye ) Blessings, Love, Guidance to you Sista Sandra,
I just left a post for Akinkawon, you are more welcome to read it. Again, we as people who actually have the time to spend on a discourse between right and wrong are truly blessed while the masses of InI people struggle from day to day to overstand the right and wrong of their own situations in life. Right and wrong truly weighs on the conscious of the indvidual. I realize there is a sense of urgency on your part to derive some peace of mind in regard to Rasta people. Like I wrote to Omawali in an earlier message, InI could poke holes in everyone's belief system based upon ostensible contradictions and fallacies, yet the heart of the matter truly concerns how each individual on Jah Rastafari's world can fill the God shaped hole in their hearts. I leave you with this:
Whenever conflict arises between material and spiritual values, the conscience plays an important role and anyone who suffers from a guilty conscience is never really free from this problem until he makes peace with himself and his conscience. Discipline of the mind is the basic ingredient of genuine morality and therefore spiritual strength. Spiritual power is the eternal guide, in this life and the life after, for man can reach the summit destined for him by the Great Creator. Since nobody can interfere in the realm of God we should tolerate and live side by side with people of different faiths, In the mystic tradition of the different religions we have a remarkable Unity of Spirit. Whatever religion they may profess, they are Spiritual Kinsmen.
Words of His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I
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( Akinkawon ) I thought Yehoshua was your way of saying Joshua. I'll wait for clarity on this.
I can also give an extensive historical overview of Yahweh, but for the point I want to make that is not relevant.
It is these discussions that make it possible for others to understand the right and wrong of their 'own' situation and when people stop struggling to understand the relationship between their ideas and their own poverty they remain slaves.
Poking holes in the beliefs of others may be a good thing if it is done with the intent to uplift. However, this does not apply to me since I do not live by any belief system.
My point is simple, if Rastafarians expect cooperation and assistance from others, they better be prepared to have these concepts scrutinized. People should not contribute to anything in ignorance and if some Rastafarians do not want to be scrutinized then they would have to keep what they believe private and only seek help from other Rastafarians. I do not know how they would do that since many call themselves Rastafarians and all claim to be the true ones and they contradict each other. Yet some Rastafarians expect non-Rastafarians to be able to tell the difference.
I am in agreement with several non-Rastafarians on this forum who do not hold Haile Selassie in the same esteem like Rastafarians.
To Rastafarians, does that mean that such people including Africans are false or ungodly and Rastafarians are gods special chosen people. I have witnesses the long-term effects of such attitudes; the present Jews are living examples of this. Do I hate them? No. Do I dislike Rastafarians because I do not accept what I hear from most who claim Rastafari? No. But if our quest is not about defining common values then the distrust and conflicts continues.
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( Dredeye ) Greetings Mi bredren Akinkawon,
I hope that our discussions have helped to breakdown some of the generalizations you feel about Rasta people. For some, the Rastafari faith gives an outlet to people either be more comforting and compassionate to people or a means to justify their egotistical and sometimes quite immoral actions. To generalize all of Rasta people based upon some religious zealots can be seen as quite unfair. Iman, personally, know quite a few Rastas that uphold the true liviti of Rastafari in expressing the One Love attitude.
Know this, as Iman grow in Jah wisdom, Iman have come to know that it is not worth judging people with right or wrong based upon one's personal ethical and spiritual codes. InI are here to overstand and receive the messages that Rastafari relate to InI thru His teachings, His speeches, InI life and liviti. Iman do not expect everyone to Hail His Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I in the same way as people of Rastafari do. But as children of the Most High God, no matter how you recognize and give homage to His presence, I do expect their to be common respect, understanding, and humility to burn thru weakheart conceptons of the false ego, to reach the Iyah Ites of humanity as an African nation, as a human nation under Jah.
With that being said, you can continue to judge Iman and all InI bredren and sistren based upon what "Non-Rastafarians" hold to be rightful and truthful, but also recognize that is the same disdain that you will give to other people because they don't fit your particular standard of what is required to truly liberate InI people. My ancestors come from Haiti, the only black nation that successful ousted a European colonial power(besides Ethiopia) by galvanizing the people despite different ideaologies and spirtual practices.
Thus Iman know this same idea can be transplanted anywhere with the proper leadership and humblance to the Most High. Either way Akinkawon, right or wrong, you are the master of your own destiny for all of its successes and failures. Be open to learning despite what you think you want to know or already know because Jah Rastafari, God, Yaweh, Yehoshua, Buddha, Hare Krisna, Allah, Orishna, or even Jesus Christ manifests in ways beyond your own overstanding or control. If you are open to receive the blessings than it won't matter who it comes from, as long as you receive the blessing.
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( Akinkawon ) The generalizations you feel about Rasta people?
Brother, in my previous posts I made references to some Rastafarians and I deliberately kept away from stereotyping all Rastafarians. You can review my post for yourself.
People could only judge right and wrong by their own ethical understanding and the purpose of discussions between diverse people is to refine those understandings.
"You can continue to judge Iman and all InI bredren and sistren based upon what "Non-Rastafarians" hold to be rightful and truthful, but also recognize that is the same disdain that you will give to other people because they don't fit your particular standard of what is required to truly liberate InI people."
Here again you are speaking from your own misunderstanding as we are simply having a discussing where you give your positions and I give mine. Where in my comments have I treated you with disdain (contempt)?
You agree with many of the points I made about some Rastafarians so I find it amusing that you would end the discussion with pointless rhetorical conclusions.
You would have to explain how my different views deny anyone from being and doing what they want.
You are making the same call others and myself have been making on this forum for people to be more open to different views. Let us see how many people are ready to accede to that request.
It is because I am opened, I study many different cultural points of view and draw from them what makes sense to me. I am not accepting anything because someone says so, but if it makes sense and can lead to greater understanding sure I'll use it.
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( Dredeye ) Greetings Akinkawon,
I apologize if Iman misunderstood your message. I truly appreciate your open-minded attitudes as we all push for liberation and repatriation. Many times InI may falter because of basic misunderstanding. That is why Iman personally like to reason with people face to face to get better overstanding of what each person is saying. Being a defender of InI faith, can sometimes make Iman a little defensive. But let InI continue with the discussion.
Iman was discussing with a man who was in Ethiopia from 1972-1974 when His Majesty was ousted from His Palace. From this bredrens overstanding, His Majesty had imposed wonderful statues and programs to bring Ethiopia into the 20th century as well admired His Majesty for nobility in fighting Italian forces during the 1930's. He also mentioned that it was not until the latter few years of His reign that perhaps senility and disconnection with InI people caused for serious misjudgemens on His part. Its perception like these that help Iman shape Iman's view of His Majesty as a man of the flesh.
Truly, Iman recognize His significance in regard to biblical prophecy and lineage, and even as a true and living King of Israel. Emperor Haile Selassie I is one to be venerated to the utmost but absolute worship for Iman is another story. What Iman say is quite upsetting to many Rasta people, but InI know self, and this is Iman's take on His Majesty.
Let InI continue pon Iyah Ites of truth,
Dredeye Knight Out!
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